Now that the PS3 is released in Japan and US, I'm interested to hear about people that actually have one. I'd like to know how open it is, and their experience with it?
Following on from this, how is ps2dev.org people going to approach this new platform? Are people interested in hacking the core Sony operating system, writing software for linux?
David. aka Oobles.
How open is Playstation 3?
we have one at the office, but the guy who owns it will probably take it home to germany next week, and i cant afford one before january.
a project that i could imagine for ps2dev:
- since a lot of people might be interested in homebrew while not beeing linux-savy or interested in linux at all, a tiny shell could be nice. like a minimalistic loader that can be booted as "other os" and supports firing off either installed homebrew packages, a full linux (if installed) or reboot back to the game os. that could also supply remote debugging/launching etc for homebrewers who do not want to compile stuff directly on the ps3, but rather use it like a network-attached devkit.
and of course that luaplayer.
hacking the original os would probably open the door for piracy faster than neccessary... the only reason to do that would be if sony refuses to open up the rsx. having such a nice machine and only a framebuffer to play with does not feel right, allthough the documentation of the kernel patches sounds like they are implementing drivers for the other components during the next few weeks/months, so maybe rsx is on that list too...
a project that i could imagine for ps2dev:
- since a lot of people might be interested in homebrew while not beeing linux-savy or interested in linux at all, a tiny shell could be nice. like a minimalistic loader that can be booted as "other os" and supports firing off either installed homebrew packages, a full linux (if installed) or reboot back to the game os. that could also supply remote debugging/launching etc for homebrewers who do not want to compile stuff directly on the ps3, but rather use it like a network-attached devkit.
and of course that luaplayer.
hacking the original os would probably open the door for piracy faster than neccessary... the only reason to do that would be if sony refuses to open up the rsx. having such a nice machine and only a framebuffer to play with does not feel right, allthough the documentation of the kernel patches sounds like they are implementing drivers for the other components during the next few weeks/months, so maybe rsx is on that list too...
Why not using Linux? If you write your own OS, you have to implement all the drivers for the hardware yourself, which is included in the Linux distribution (I hope). For the PSP and Playstation 1/2 this was necessary, because ordinary people couldn't buy a dev kit, but with PS3 this should be better and we can concentrate on application development.f_bohmann wrote:- since a lot of people might be interested in homebrew while not beeing linux-savy or interested in linux at all, a tiny shell could be nice. like a minimalistic loader that can be booted as "other os" and supports firing off either installed homebrew packages, a full linux (if installed) or reboot back to the game os. that could also supply remote debugging/launching etc for homebrewers who do not want to compile stuff directly on the ps3, but rather use it like a network-attached devkit.
Good idea, I hope I'll get one before xmas, because I have some time in holiday to port it to the PS3.f_bohmann wrote: and of course that luaplayer.
I think that people *might* think that running an app on top of an OS might be a performance killer. Then my personal opinion is that it will take some time until homebrew apps whill reach the limit of the system and performace becomes really an issue.Shine wrote:Why not using Linux? If you write your own OS, you have to implement all the drivers for the hardware yourself, which is included in the Linux distribution (I hope).
Bootloader and install instructions for Fedora are here: ftp://ftp.uk.linux.org/pub/linux/Sony-PS3/
I've not downloaded it as I don't have a PS3 (yet) but it's supposed to be framebuffer only support, no RSX.
I've not downloaded it as I don't have a PS3 (yet) but it's supposed to be framebuffer only support, no RSX.
That's right, looks like you can't access all registers of the RSX, but I've read somewhere that you can at least execute Cg code over this interface, so implementing a fast OpenGL implementation or a fast 2D library should be possible.TyRaNiD wrote:At least based on the way Sony put it in the linux documentation the RSX is hidden behind the hypervisor thus it sounds like it wont be accessible without sony giving permission for us to do so.
BTW: Do you know, if it is possible to access the other hardware, like the surround audio output and the Bluetooth and WLAN interface?
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jockyw2001
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- Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:19 pm
Shine, I'm interested to see the article you have read that says Cg code can be run on RSX from alternate OS. Because Cg code is just another previous form for shader code and GPU power is mainly based on shader code. In other words, if it's true, then there may be no limit at all except the lack of information.
I don't have the link any more, but looks like it was just some guessing of the author, no technical details. I don't think that it is possible.ps2devman wrote:Shine, I'm interested to see the article you have read that says Cg code can be run on RSX from alternate OS. Because Cg code is just another previous form for shader code and GPU power is mainly based on shader code. In other words, if it's true, then there may be no limit at all except the lack of information.
But who wants RSX? The SPEs are 5 times faster :-) see PDF page 91:
http://www.gpgpu.org/sc2006/workshop/pr ... M_Cell.pdf
I don't think Sony is an any hurry to make RSX available. Its a question of copyright protection for them.
And i'm pretty sure its blocked by the hypervisor rather than a lack of driver support. Don't expect RSX homebrew without the usual exploits/modchips/etc.
However, the Cell seems to have a lot of potential. Personally, I would like to see something like the OP is suggesting. Running linux is not only a lot of performance overhead, its also difficult for the average user. Homebrew PS3 games could reach a wide audience if they run straight from CD/DVD at the kboot prompt.
And i'm pretty sure its blocked by the hypervisor rather than a lack of driver support. Don't expect RSX homebrew without the usual exploits/modchips/etc.
However, the Cell seems to have a lot of potential. Personally, I would like to see something like the OP is suggesting. Running linux is not only a lot of performance overhead, its also difficult for the average user. Homebrew PS3 games could reach a wide audience if they run straight from CD/DVD at the kboot prompt.
How is it a copyright protection issue? I'm just curious.theBishop wrote:I don't think Sony is an any hurry to make RSX available. Its a question of copyright protection for them.
That is very interesting. This is probably why initially the PS3 did not have a dedicated GPU and it was added later in the development cycle.Shine wrote:I don't have the link any more, but looks like it was just some guessing of the author, no technical details. I don't think that it is possible.
But who wants RSX? The SPEs are 5 times faster :-) see PDF page 91:
http://www.gpgpu.org/sc2006/workshop/pr ... M_Cell.pdf
But couldn't they just create a restrictive opengl driver that still resides behind the hypervisor? Or give limited access to hardware without exposing the full chip? I don't see why PS3 homebrew should suffer because of pirates...Shine wrote:If RSX were available for Linux, it would be possible to play cracked games on it, which is impossible, if you don't have access to the hardware which the game needs.